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Chinese Formula's - New vs Old

 
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CombinedNSP
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Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Dec Sat 16, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Chinese Formula's - New vs Old Reply with quote

Chinese Formula's - New vs Old

I am very happy that there are now concentrated forms of the Chinese formula's since the dosage is lessened due to the concentration of the product. I am hoping that I can eliminate the old formula's but want to make sure people are getting the same results with the new concentrated ones first. Anyone care to share? -John
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We use them both - some people only check on 2 of something - and then the conc would be too much. -Kasara
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I am NOT getting any results with the NEW formulas, especially the IF-C. Concentration is nice, less capsules but it must do the job! What have they changed in the new concentrated forms, because of California? I will be upset if they decide to do away with the old. I will call home office and find out what has changed!! -Gale
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I find folks test equally for the regular Chinese formulas as the TCMs. Personally I like the TCMs as they seem to be preferred by those with weakened digestive function. Both TCM Kidney formulas are particularly popular. When folks needed KB-C and were in pain, I had to get them to open the capsules and make a tea to get relief. With the TCM KB-C this doesn't seem to be necessary. Having said that, the regular formulas are preferred by other folks - and why I'm not sure. I guess when you MT, you're as sure as you're gonna get. -Pat Block
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I am surprised how easily the TCM concentrates have been accepted when they cost more and get less. People love taking less capsules, and my customers are getting results. -Jean Weddle
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Traditional Chinese Medicine is what it stands for. I have to say that the acupuncturist that works with us is trained to customize formulas for each patient and she is not so impressed with our Chinese formulas. She likes dealing with our individual herbs. For instance last week she told me to look for a product (she tries to fit NSP into her programs) that had silimarin and dong quai but not any bupleurum. Alot of our Chinese formulas have bupleurum in them so we sent them home with Milk Thistle Combination and a bottle of Dong Quai. It is my impression that our formulas are general combinations, in China they custom blend your formula of herbs for your particular health issue at "herbal pharmacys" -LaVonna
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Oh gee, I see where I've caused confusion. I owe y'all an explanation.

ALL of NSPs Chinese formulas are TCMs, that is, Traditional Chinese Medicine formulas that target imbalances in the traditional 5 elements...wood, water, fire, earth, metal. (Traditional Chinese Medicine incorporates other modalities besides herbal remedies, but our discussion is limited to that here)

The original herb bottles for the Chinese Formulas - with the red stripe and Chinese symbols do not say TCM on them, but they are herbal Traditional Chinese Medicine. The new gold bottles DO say TCM 'concentrate' (and that's how my employees interpret my recommendations). They are also herbal Traditional Chinese Medicine but concentrated. SO, I should have indicated those as concentrates, not TCM in my post. So please let's refer to them as concentrates. Sorry. -Pat Block
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Pat, I understand all that perfectly, but in my e-mail, I mentioned that I didn't get the same result with the new concentrated formula's and was wondering if others noticed this too! -Gale
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I have looked at these formulas carefully and compared them in content to the old as well as I could without having the individual ingredients. I suspected that the recommended amounts would be lower than practically effective doses. I think that people may find that they need to use more than the label says. It certainly has been true of the new IF Relief (although this is not TCM) for me personally.

TCM contains five elements, five thousand herbs, and five hundred thousand formulas, according to my friend at the Tianjin Pharmaceutical Research Center. So we could never expect to keep up with them all. There are many over the counter formulas in China that are popular and that sell large quantities. There is one company in California that has about 40 formula products and they are sold well in Chinese herbal stores. There is a book that is used by the customers and counter personnel alike to help find appropriate formulas. Every major store in LA that I have visited carries these formulas. They usually retail for about $20-25 a bottle.

NSP was faced with higher costs for raw materials when they formulated the new products. Extracts always cost more than raw biomass on an active molecule basis. But Dr. Liqin Sun, my Chinese doctor, told me that she uses all extracts in her own formulas. So I believe that the technique has found acceptance in modern TCM. "TMP" (Too Many Pills) is a common complaint among my customers and is a major factor in compliance failure, so I heartily endorse steps to reduce capsule counts.

Actual costs of goods in the new NSP TCM products are about 5 to 10 times more than in the old formulas because of the extraction methods. The small number of capsules and the desire to keep the apparent cost down may have skewed the label instructions to some extent. Marketing department can find a way of making the new seem more attractive by making it seem cheaper to use if the label says take one instead of three, even though the actual amount used may be three. I don't think of this as misleading, but rather is suggestive of benefit. The truth is that there is no trial data from human use on the recommended amounts used between the new and the old, at least to my knowledge. The need to reformulate for California was an enormous undertaking done under great pressure and the number of products involved were more than a hundred. This was done without substantial increase in staffing. Our folks working under Dr. Keller deserve a hearty three cheers. If they had taken the time to run a one or two year trial, during that time nobody in California would have been able to get many of the NSP products. So there is a very valid reason for the practice of going ahead and letting us figure out in use what should be the actual amounts used. Federal labeling requirements mandate the manufacturer to put a recommended serving suggestion. If they say one or two capsules per day and you find that 6 a day is more what you need, then that is the factor of experience.

Of course for those among us who use muscle testing for decisions, that would remove any need for labeling. To be practical, if NSP would adopt that method for quality control, large savings could result in the avoidance of expensive testing with costly lab equipment and hiring PhD employees. I personally hope that the company will continue to base their products on the hard science side, however.

Californians must use the new. All others can use either. Sales will determine the retention of all our products, so those who like the older formulas can support them by buying them. If they buy enough, they will remain. If not, bye bye! -Richard Lund
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The company that I am thinking about I think is called Herbal Science. But I cannot find them on the internet tonight, so I probably have the name wrong. There are many Chinese manufactured products that might be available for a few dollars a bottle, but these are not, to my knowledge. I imagine wholesale to be around $9-12 a bottle. They are made in the US and that costs much more. I carry a small line from another source that is also made in the US. They retail for $29.95 and cost about $16. So we are in range at our distributor cost. -Richard Lund
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I personally haven't had too many opportunities to use the new TCM Concentrates from NSP. I've ordered a few and will start using them. In principle, they should work just fine, since all these formulas were originally used as water extracts in Chinese medicine. All NSP is doing is making a water extract and then taking the water out and encapsulating the remaining solids. This makes the formula more concentrated and more in harmony with traditional Chinese use. -Steven H. Horne
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